London, 1940
Byline: bob | Category: Uncategorized | Posted at: Friday, 21 July 2006
Last night I attended an Israel Solidarity Gathering at the Gordon Jewish Community Center. There I heard the stories of young people who had been in Israel just a week ago.
One story stood out to me. It was about being huddled together in a bomb shelter hearing rockets fly overhead and wondering who was going to be bombed.
I’ve heard those stories before.
July 21st, 2006 at 7:17 am
Yeah, me too. On a number of Lebanese blogs.
July 21st, 2006 at 8:03 am
Yeah, I suppose Berliners were scared too.
July 21st, 2006 at 8:56 am
Bob,
Several million Germans voted for Hitler and many more joyfully celebrated the rearming of the Rheinland, the Anschluss, the occupation of Czechoslovakia, the invasion of Poland, the conquest of France etc. They served in the Army, Navy, security services and in the war economy. In other words, most of the attacks on German civilians were justified.
The Lebanese saw their country subjugated by Syria and used as a battleground for Hamas, Hezbollah, Christian militias and Israel. However much I want the terrorists hunted down and killed, the death and destruction visited on Lebanese civilians is not justified.
July 21st, 2006 at 9:34 am
War is a horrible thing for civilians on all sides. And I certainly feel for the many Lebanese who are vitims because their own government has lost control of parts of parts of the country. But that doesn’t mean that Israel is unjustified in seeking out terrorists whose m.o. is to hide amongst civilians and then cry foul when civilians are caught in the fires.
There’s a Yiddish word for that kind of duplicity: chutzpah.
July 21st, 2006 at 9:58 am
Mark,
Also, you are correct that Lebanon and Berlin is an imprecise analogy. The better comparison would be to occupied France. Most of the air and ground war in the Western Theatre was fought in France, a country “subjugated” by the enemy, and “used as a battlefield” by both sides. Tens of thousands of French civilians died at the hands of Allied war machines. That was a horrible loss of life. But that didn’t make it wrong.
July 21st, 2006 at 10:29 am
Bob,
I tend to call them gutless cowards.
The question is whether Israel’s response against Hezbollah is proportionate to Hezbollah’s actions. Your point about Hezbollah hiding among civilians is true. Is the damage to Hezbollah close to the damage to the Lebanese?
A writer for The New Republic suggested an attack on Syria’s army. Since Syria is a sponsor of Hezbollah, I am not certain that this wouldn’t be more effective and proportional.
July 21st, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Mark,
You’re almost correct. Iran is using Syria, who is using Hezbolla, who is using Lebanese civilians as cover. Often this conflict has been likened to a many-headed hydra, when in fact, there has always been only one head. And it has been ensconced in Tehran for 27 years.
I only hope that that problem is fixed before they have the power to go nuclear. What is different this time, judging by some of the relatively measured reaction out of the normal anti-Israel zealots in the region, is that many seem now to recognize that Iran is a greater threat to regional stability than is Israel. That’s an encouraging sign.
July 21st, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Bob,
Listening to the UN debate today I was not surprised that the Palestinian representative did not mention the number of Israelite suicide victims. It is time for another “the enemy of my friend†speeches from the White House directed towards Iran and Syria.
I remember one lecture during officer training that stressed to win the enemy’s will to fight must be destroyed. It really bothers me US citizens do not understand we are at war for this country’s survival. And it makes me very angry our government is not acting like it. We will lose if we do not develop the now missing will to win.
Stan
July 22nd, 2006 at 4:25 am
Hiya Mark,
Actually Iran is behind Hezzbolah, donating 100 million a year in money and weapons. Syria is more of the middle man.
Hezzbolah killed 241 marines in the early 80s in Lebanon, and have somewhat endeared themselves to the Lebanese people. They have wisely instituted an outreach program, funding hospitals, schools and reaching out to their inner cities. From a rather small guerrilla group, they have grown into a sophisticated army capable of fighting military operations, while still using suicide bombers and kidnappings to terrorize Israel. People who live in Haifa have lived in fear of them for a quarter of a century.
Hezzbolah had kidnapped soldiers before,and they got what they wanted–prisoners released. I don’t think Israel is going to do that again.
Lebanon is in violation of U.N. Resolution 1559, passed years ago requiring Lebanon to disband Hezzbolah. I don’t hear a lot of people talking about that. Details. Anyhow, Lebanon should have acted a long time ago to rid itself of Hezzbolah. If Israel doesn’t do it now, there will be no Israel. Hezzbolah, like Hamas, has stated over and over and over and over it will not stop until Israel is drivin into the sea. Yeah…those damn Israelis causing all the trouble again.
To paraphase the song by Mafia 3six that won the Academy Award for best song, “It’s hard out there for a Jew.”
July 22nd, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Time for some Moral Equivalency…I have heard numerous people call on Lebanon to disband Hezbollah, however, I think its a little presumptuous to think that a weak government with a weak military can defeat an armed group of well trained militia that has the support of its people.
Just look at the United States, we spend more money on the War on Drugs than any other nation in the world, yet at the same time we are the largest consumer of drugs in the world. And look at some South American countries, they are going to war with their terrorists (drug cartels) and have barely made a dent in to their operation. As soon as one dies, two more pop up in its place.
So I’m not sure what Lebanon can do by itself, and they certainly can’t invite Israel into their country because that would just further bond Hezbollah’s ties to the Lebanese people. So frankly, I’m not sure what the best course of action is, all I know is that even if Lebanon wanted to disband Hezbollah, they couldn’t do it by themselves.
July 22nd, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Sean,
As always, you make some good points. I think it’s shameful that the U.S. did not send Condi or another delegation (say Bush 1 and Clinton)over right after the conflict started. The conflict might have been defused with good foreign policy;
something this country does not have under the current administration.
July 26th, 2006 at 11:16 pm
Why are the governments of countries like lebanon and palestine so anti democratic when their own elections are similar to the democratic process? Will there ever be peace in the middle east?
August 1st, 2006 at 3:03 pm
I think Mark has a point. It’s not a question of proportionality, but effectiveness. Is this strategy really effective? I don’t know.
I would like to add to Sharon’s point. Lebanon’s government is weak. But if it were a case of it just being weak, we might say, diplomacy and support are the answer not bombs. But Lebanon’s government actually has Hezbollah representation. So not just weak in strength, but weak in will.